North Carolina Fishing Reports

Capt_Mike · Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 12:45 pm Post subject: Save our Pogies !!

Attention all fisherman this is important site to visit www.saveourpogies.com and email our legislators just as we did for the Shallow Draft Inlets.
I remember back in the early 70's when you could literally have a school of menhaden from the shore of Oak Island extending across to Bald Head Island. These big shcools are no longer seen due to the Pogie Boats that operate from Virginia to the Carolina's. This is the food for our game fish,it is being destoyed. The Ocean Isle Fishing Center has started the fight,they need some help,let's get involved!
Capt.Mike Dennis
LOOKOUT CHARTERS

RoughandReady · MOD Joined: May 17, 2004 Posts: 971

pogys are endangered?

Capt_Dave · Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 11:19 pm Post subject:

Ya Rough, I talked to Capt. Brant down at Ocean Isle the other day. He told me they have a pretty local population of pogies South of Cape Fear......and the Va. Boats......and NC Boats would come in and damn near wipe out the entire population in 3 days.

There was a big offset between the commercial dollar that the pogies bring vs the Rec dollar that sportfishing brings.

I invited him to the board.....Maybe he will chime in and tell us about it.

Dave
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RoughandReady · MOD Joined: May 17, 2004 Posts: 971

Well,from what I've seen,oifc seems to have a vendetta against commercial fisherman.Getting involved in several fights to stop netting.
Without giving a dam about the economic impact it would make to several
north carolina fishing communities.I don't do much netting any more,but
I have alot of concern for those who still do.

SpaceMan · 1st Mate Joined: May 03, 2004 Posts: 59

Pogies are obviously a huge part of the food chain--meaning very close to the bottom of the chain as far as fishies are concerned. Lots of gamefish eat them. Plus they are part of the ocean's filtration system, helping to clean up the waters they travel in.

There are a lot of pogies for sure, but just like every fish in the sea, they are a finite resource. Our methods of harvesting them are improving every day. And our methods are already very effective.

Marine researchers are already seeing a significant decrease in the number of pogies in the Chesapeake Bay. What used to be an industry primarily involved in providing fish for fertilizer and cosmetics has now become a hugely profitable venture in Omega 3 protein production. With that profitability comes increased expansion of the industry, meaning more boats in the water and a larger harvest. And while there's not yet evidence that OUR populations are being adversely affected, given the extent of the take by the current fishing techniques AND the opening of a new processing plant in Virginia, it's likely just a matter of time before a significant decline is documented.

So, the question is, do we wait until one of the primary forage fishes and filterers of our coastal waters is endangered by overfishing, or do we try to head off that possibility before it reaches unacceptable proportions?

One thing we know for sure is that the commercial industry is NOT going to be the one who tells us that the stocks are declining. If you need proof of that just do a little research on how the commercial cod fishermen reacted when they were told their stocks were being decimated by overfishing.

It's a terrible thing when an industry suffers economic hardship, but it's even worse when it's avoidable. It's also a LOT WORSE when we all suffer because an industry is more interested in its profit margins than the welfare of the fishery.

RoughandReady · MOD Joined: May 17, 2004 Posts: 971

Quote from spaceman:

Marine researchers are already seeing a significant decrease in the number of pogies in the Chesapeake Bay.

Pollution and over development and the biggest problems on the bay.
So why not attack the the people that are killing the enviroment?

quote from Capt Brant:

June 18, 2002

It's magic! Like flipping a light switch the King Mackerel show up and start biting. All boats had near limits of Kings in the 10-20 pound range while fishing 55-80 feet of water. Pogys are plentiful off of Little River and there are also lots of Cigar Minnows and Sardines.

This is why,Because capt brant wants to catch plenty of kings,when the pogys are around!

I'm just getting sick and tired of people that will do about anything in there
power to make fishing "There way" better,not giving a woot about who they hurt in the process.I'm sure they showed alot of concern for the enviroment when they built that giant fishing center right on the water?

quote from spaceman:

One thing we know for sure is that the commercial industry is NOT going to be the one who tells us that the stocks are declining.

You need to understand that north carolina Has great fisheries management!

If not then go here: http://www.ncfisheries.net/

I was always told If you live in a glass house,Don't throw stones.

Question 4 u ,Who kills most of the big breeder King Macheral?

You all keep this sh*t up we will be tagging and releasing kings.
You can't keep jumping the enviromental fence and expect to win.
It will come back and bite you in the ass.

Pogys have good years,and have bad years,Lots depend on weather
water temp,quality,enviroment,fishing impact.

Like I said from the start,this is just a vendetta against commercial fishermen,by someone who is jumping the enviromental fence like
a bunny rabbit.If you are willing to support someone like that,then
you truly don't understand what greedy people will do to get there way.
If this were a true issue I would support it.But from what I've read its
Not.I have never netted pogys commercially.And never plan to.
But one thing for sure,I would never try and take away a hard working american citizens way of life to create a recreation fishing haven for others.

Frankie · 1st Mate Joined: Mar 25, 2005 Posts: 61

It seems insane to worry about a few netters jobs when you consider the consequences of the depletion of one of the most important bait fisheries. I am fairly new to the saltwater addiction and do not intend to offend anyone. I am also not sure how badly the commercial netting actually affects any of the fisheries, but from what I read and hear from old timers, there is definitely a change from the old days.

oldmonitor · Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 6:16 pm Post subject:

I will say it.

They should make a commercial netting fee so high that no one would buy it, say $500,000 or $750,000 a month. And say a fine of 2 or 3 mill for a lost net (since they keep killing day after day for years)

With fees this high the rat boats would die out fast

Only a true SCUMBAG would say something like this - "all of them".

( Jules Wheatley, owner of Beaufort Fisheries. The committee asked several questions of Wheatley regarding our putting him out of buisness. One member asked how many menhaden does he try to net out of a school. His response was "all of them".

a link ( http://www.saveourpogies.com/index.cfm?id=48 )

In the past we had commercial hunting and we saw how well that worked.
Maybe its time we take a look at commercial fishing.

I must admit I have no love of anyone who lives off of the public trust.
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dunzie · Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 9:10 pm Post subject:

Rough, ease up your going to stroke out. I see both side of the fence here. You must admit there needs to be some changes on netting and fishing regulations in NC both private, rec. and commercial. But I do take offense that you, are saying since I do not make my living of the water, I should not have a say in how it should be fished and harvested. Let me tell you I work six days a week, and most importantly I PAY TAXES and do my part to obey the laws. If you don't like oifc or me fine, but don't be so dang hateful about it . And jobs let me ask you, Do you Shop at wal mart?, if you do. Here something for you, Wal mart put 1400, people out of work last year in NC, 350 in Wilson. If you don't shop at Wal Mart you alright then. ROUGH ease up captian.

But for everybody Wal-Mart and Satan are in the same class.

Capt_Dave · Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 10:20 pm Post subject:

Dunzie,
I am looking for real conversation about this issue.....

Read this report....

http://fryingpantower.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=680

The State says that Pogies are fine....They are in now trouble. Now you seem to on the other side of this issue.

Why should I take up arms againest Pogy boats when the State itself says that they are in fine shape?

This web site produced 276,000 e-mails about the inlets...convince me that we should do the same for the pogies.

I do not what to hear name calling....I want to see facts....I want a convincing argument that this is a worthy call.

Dave

dunzie · Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 8:11 am Post subject:

Capt, maybe you understood me or I was not clear enough. If the pogys are in trouble, drastic and long term measures should be taken to keep them for many years to come. I honestly could care less if a pogy boat ever enters the water again and as far as the state DMF to me there reports and studies are worthless to me. NC is way behind when we still have trawling in ICW. I HAVE SAID FOREVER THERE NEEDS TO BE A 20 MILE NET RULE, and hvae wrote the dmf, and Tony Rand for the last 5 years. But, thats me and my take on it. However I do know this
WAL-MART KILLS THE LITTLE MAN, PLEASE DON'T SHOP AT WAL-MART

Capt_Dave · Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 8:38 am Post subject:

dunzie,

You said,

"If the pogys are in trouble, drastic and long term measures should be taken to keep them for many years to come."

That is why I am asking you.....
Are the Pogies in trouble?

.....explain to us why the pogies are in trouble and why drastic and long term measures are needed.

dunzie · Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 2:07 pm Post subject:

In the last 6-7 years, I have noticed a drastic change in the amount of menhaden around from the point down to southport. After talking to many of the fishermen around they are telling me the same thing not to mention.

The Monterey Aquauiram
Tim Hobbs-NCDMF
The Atlantic States Marine Fisheries

The ASMF, in special report 83 says the rock fish by the pound has fell of dramatically since 1986 when the first research project was done, They clasiify weakfish, menhaden-pollock as being overfished, and being abused by the enviroment.

The LA sea grant basically says the same thing but, they blame most of it all on landscape, and industry plaqueing the sea. They also agree that menhaden are overfished and are unable to gorw mature before harvesting.

I am no scientist but I can read, a little bit any way. The only conclusion I can come up with is that menhaden, along with some more sea life are depleting either by overfishing and the enviroment, which has a stair stepping effect on many other marine life.

Wal-Mart is the Devil

Capt_Dave · Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 4:31 pm Post subject:

(07/04 NCDMF)
ATLANTIC MENHADEN
Stock Status-Viable- the status of F and population fecundity in 2003 (latest ASMFC stock assessment) suggest that fishing mortality rate is near, but slightly above the F-target and population fecundity is well above the fecundity target.

Average Commercial Landings and Value 1994 - 2003--61,500,112 lbs., $4,423,094

2003 Commercial Landings and Value--48,936,502 lbs., $3,943,814

Average Recreational Landings 1994 - 2003 --Not applicable

Average RCGL Landings 2002-2003--Not applicable

Status of Fisheries Management Plan--No North Carolina FMP. Revised ASMFC FMP approved in 1992; Amendment 1 (approved April 2001) includes overfishing definition and reorganization of management program. Amendment 1 defines two benchmarks, fishing mortality rate (F) and spawning stock biomass (SSB) as the focus of the stock status as well as state management actions, and Internal Waters Processing requests. ASMFC is in the process of developing Addendum 1, which proposes to modify the biological reference points, stock assessment schedule and revise the FMP's habitat section. The 2003 stock assessment uses a new model with a fecundity-based biological reference point to determine stock status.

Data/Research Needs--Develop coastwide juvenile abundance index; evaluate environmental factors affecting recruitment to age 1; data from bait fisheries (size, age, effort); evaluate bait demand, supply, and value.

Current Regulations--There is no minimum size limit

Harvest Season--Always open in ocean beyond one mile of beach (with some specific exceptions); various closures in estuaries and ocean within one mile of beach (see MFC Rule Book).

Size and Age at Maturity--7-9 inch FL; 3 + years old

Historic and current maximum age--10 years old/ 8 years old

Current Juvenile Abundance Index (2003) --14.70 (number of individuals per unit effort).

Habits/Habitat--Atlantic menhaden are estuarine-dependent with a single stock along the Atlantic coast. They spawn during fall-winter in the ocean from the Virginia capes to south of Cape Lookout. Menhaden migrate north from unspecified south Atlantic wintering areas in the spring, with larger/older fish going farthest north. Menhaden are unique in their dependence as adults on phytoplankton for food that they strain from the water while swimming in schools near the surface. Recent research indicates that year-class strength is probably determined by environmental factors (currents, temperature, predation, others) acting on larvae as they approach and enter inlets and nursery areas.

Use of menhaden--About 85 - 90% of the annual Atlantic coast catch is processed into fishmeal for animal feed, and oil as an industrial base and for food additives. The rest is used for bait in the crab and lobster pot fisheries, as well as for sport fishing bait.

_____________________________________________________________

Stock status of important coastal fisheries in North Carolina, 2004

F is slightly above target and
fecundity is well above target

The Atlantic menhaden fishery has been studied actively by marine scientists and the menhaden fishery has been operating under several management plans since 1981 and 1992.

(SOURCE: Amendment 1 to the Interstate Fishery Management Plan for Atlantic Menhaden. Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission. Pp. 1-2, 38; July, 2001.)

The Atlantic menhaden fishery is being managed by the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission (ASMFC), a multi-state compact established by federal law more than 50 years ago. This commission is comprised of state fishery directors, marine scientists, and legislative and public representatives.

(SOURCE: Amendment 1 to the Interstate Fishery Management Plan for Atlantic Menhaden. Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission. P. 1; July, 2001.)

This commission has the responsibility and authority to determine the health of the Atlantic menhaden fishery and to determine Atlantic menhaden harvest limits.

(SOURCE: Amendment 1 to the Interstate Fishery Management Plan for Atlantic Menhaden. Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission. Pp. 54-58, 46; July, 2001.)

Because of the importance of the menhaden as a valuable resource to diverse commercial, ecological and sport-fishing interests, it is one of the most intensively studied species for the past 50 years.

(SOURCE: Analyses on the Status of the Atlantic Menhaden Stock. NOAA Fisheries Center for Coastal Fisheries and Habitat Research. Pp. 27, 39-41; June 7, 2001.)

The Atlantic Menhaden Technical Committee has determined that the Atlantic menhaden fishery is healthy. "Based on the revised biological reference points, the Atlantic menhaden population is not overfished and overfishing is not occurring."

(SOURCE: 2001 Status of Atlantic Menhaden Stock and Fishery. Atlantic Menhaden Technical Committee. P. 5; July 1, 2001; also Analyses on the Status of the Atlantic Menhaden Stock. NOAA Fisheries Center for Coastal Fisheries and Habitat Research. Pp. 41-42; June 7, 2001.)

The current Atlantic fishing mortality (F) is 0.6, well below the target of 0.9 set by the ASMFC, indicating that overfishing is not occurring.

(SOURCE: Amendment 1 to the Interstate Fishery Management Plan for Atlantic Menhaden. Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission. P. 47; July, 2001; also 2001 Status of Atlantic Menhaden Stock and Fishery. Atlantic Menhaden Technical Committee. P. 5; July 1, 2001)

The current capability of the Atlantic menhaden to reproduce (spawning stock biomass, SSB) is 90,100 metric tons, well above the threshold of 20,500 metric tons established by ASMFC.

(SOURCE: Amendment 1 to the Interstate Fishery Management Plan for Atlantic Menhaden. Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission. P. 47; July, 2001; also 2001 Status of Atlantic Menhaden Stock and Fishery. Atlantic Menhaden Technical Committee. P. 5; July 1, 2001)

The reproduction capability of the Atlantic menhaden (SSB), although cyclical, is increasing.

(SOURCE: Analyses on the Status of the Atlantic Menhaden Stock. NOAA Fisheries Center for Coastal Fisheries and Habitat Research. P. 15; June 7, 2001.)

The mean weight of the Atlantic menhaden is increasing. "Interestingly, exceptionally large menhaden were encountered in the Chesapeake Bay during summer 1996 (one individual was 432 mm fork length, weighing 1.55 kg, and aged by scales to be 7 years old. The existence of this school of large old menhaden tends to Support the robustness of the spawning stock during the mid.-1990s."

(SOURCE: Analyses on the Status of the Atlantic Menhaden Stock. NOAA Fisheries Center for Coastal Fisheries and Habitat Research. P. 3; June 7, 2001.)

The decrease in landings of Atlantic menhaden by the reduction industry is directly proportional to the size of the active fishing fleet and their effort, not the size of the Atlantic menhaden population abundance. "It has been demonstrated for purse seine fisheries, in general, that catch-per-unit-of-effort and nominal fishing effort are poor measures of population abundance and fishing mortality, respectively."

(SOURCE: Analyses on the Status of the Atlantic Menhaden Stock. NOAA Fisheries Center for Coastal Fisheries and Habitat Research. P. 2; June 7, 2001; also (SOURCE: Amendment 1 to the Interstate Fishery Management Plan for Atlantic Menhaden. Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission. Pp. 51-52, 38; July, 2001; also 2001 Status of Atlantic Menhaden Stock and Fishery. Atlantic Menhaden Technical Committee. P. 5; July 1, 2001)

____________________________________________________________

I know this is not making me very popular with some of the Sport fisherman in the group but at the same time....This is what the research says....Nothing More....Nothing Less.

I have said this several times. You want to BAN out of state boats from coming to NC waters....No Problem with me. You want to BAN an increase in Boats from NC waters. Again No Problem from me. You want to run Wheatly out of biz up in Beufort.....I have an issue with that. Last time I looked he has been at it since 99% of us have been living. I will not take part in anything that puts him out of Biz with out some real good solid facts.

On a side note.......One of the things that really PISSES me off is people that move here to the coast and want to mess with the people that have been scratching a living along this coast for generations. They were here first and the last time I looked they were a lot more endangered than most of fish!

Everyone here is entitiled to their own view on this subject. If you disagree with me....feel free to tell me all about. Better yet....show me why my view is wrong....hell I might change it. Just remember to be nice but feel free to speak your mind.....

Dave

dunzie · Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 1:16 pm Post subject:

I don't know but, I think something could be done to help the menhaden population increase. Because I don't care what the state says there is decrease in their population maybe not a siginficant down here as else whereor all of the conservations groups would not invest their time and money if thee was no problem. I believe a proper mangament plan can be adopted and enforced to ensure that they will be around forever. After doing alot of reading on the subject I also came across alot of information about everything from skates to pollocks being overfished and the impact on other marine life when the food chain is depleteing. I think we all need to do our part (conservation).

Wal-Mart is still the devil.


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